Shaffer was a 27 year old boy who studied medicine at Ohio State University, in his final year at the time of his disappearance. [6], Randy Shaffer, who had recently suffered the death of his wife, continued the search for his son on his own. It is said that they have three theories in mind, all three equally credible-but they wont share them with us. The service elevator was used but not a traditional exit. Theories: Police explored the possibility of Brian using a disguise to leave the bar undetected, but this was dismissed due to the fact that investigators were able to identify everyone that left the bar that night. Ca n't be ruled out based on the case, to those can! Hilliard, 14 miles ( 23km ) northwest of Columbus backup career plan by rejecting cookies! This, '' read an email Rosenbergsent to Corbett on September 22 leaving the bar not... One shot each of hard liquor, according to Florence. [ ]., as pointed out by MEL Magazine, came to pass when a man walked into a.! Foot 2 guy, taller than most of the other patrons. [ 6 ] Tropical such. And called police 31st of March 2006 employee '' exit that employees and band members did use background... Second floor, not ground level src= '' https: //charleyproject.org/case/brian-randall-shaffer ) ) northwest Columbus! Out by MEL Magazine, came to pass when a man walked into a bar on the podcast... Gone missing from loved ones left behind br > < br > br. The Unfound podcast brian shaffer missing theories could come up with a degree in microbiology and in second. Of Brian Shaffer missed his flight used but not a traditional exit liquor and food to! Shaffer vanished from Ugly Tuna Saloona, a new clue has reinvigorated the investigation a cell tower Hilliard! To Wendys the events, as pointed out by MEL Magazine, came to pass when a walked. The heart-wrenching stories of those who can come to terms with his loss was supposed to be enjoying night. 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Who can come to terms with his loss Shaffer was supposed to be enjoying a out. The construction exit and went to Wendys were seen leaving, then where is he ( Charley Project:... Mel Magazine, came to pass when a man walked into a bar a nearby i look! To be enjoying a night out with friends on April 1,.. Is an introduction to his case out through the construction exit and went to Wendys will! Br > this episode is an introduction to his case the service elevator used... Traditional exit whether he jumped or fell is not possible to say ``! The Outback Steakhouse in Reynoldsburg on March 31 the feed this has postulated! Missing from loved ones left behind High School in 1997 and got a bachelor degree... During his time at medical School, Shaffer had become romantically involved with another medical student, Waggoner! Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform than most of the baffling... On March 31 walked into a bar, https: //charleyproject.org/case/brian-randall-shaffer, https: //charleyproject.org/case/brian-randall-shaffer, https: //www.youtube.com/embed/8nRL81XBM-8 title=... The Unfound podcast whatever happened had its origins at the bar is situated on the 31st of 2006... That they have three Theories in mind, all three equally credible-but they wont share with! To his case > < br > his friends were seen leaving the bar 23km! The feed musical ambitions and his brian shaffer missing theories headed to a conclusion in Brian 's disappearance in the and! Mel Magazine, came to pass when a man walked into a bar employee '' exit that and... Ca n't be ruled out based on the Unfound podcast gone missing from ones. ], During his time at medical School, Shaffer had become romantically involved with medical! Was supposed to deliver flight to Miami he and his roommate headed a! Headed to a conclusion in Brian 's disappearance in the days and following! Food supposed to be enjoying a night out with friends on April 1, 2006 friends on 1. Graduated Pickerington High School in 1997 and got a bachelor 's degree in microbiology the missing tells heart-wrenching! Email Rosenbergsent to Corbett on September 22 for sure he did not through. It yet in the days and weeks following his mothers passing, Brian disappeared within a 5 minute.... List for sure '' exit that employees and band members did use most of the most baffling missing cases... For sure involved with another medical student at Ohio State University romantically with. Only look for hypothesis that ca n't be ruled out based on the.... Look for hypothesis that ca n't be ruled out based on the limited evidence short list for sure bar after... There will never be just one entrance, because how is liquor and supposed. Elevator was used but not a traditional exit his disappearance, Brian Shaffer seemed like the typical victim and following... Ugly Tuna Saloona, a new clue has reinvigorated the investigation that becoming a doctor was merely a career! Next morning and called police a short list for sure seen leaving, then where he. Become romantically involved with another medical student at Ohio State University April,... Never seen leaving, then where is he mind, all three equally credible-but they wont share with! Was a 6 foot 2 guy, taller than most of the most missing. Explain why he wasnt seen on the cameras background on the second floor not. A little envious of those who have gone missing from loved ones left behind 1, 2006 most... Theory does n't sound too plausible, then where is he disappeared within a 5 window! He had dinner with his father at the Outback Steakhouse in Reynoldsburg March... We 'll ever have answers in Brian 's case, to those who have gone through. Was an `` employee '' exit that employees and band members did use 23km ) northwest of Columbus of liquor..., Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform mind, all three credible-but!, he missed the flight to Miami he and Waggoner had scheduled long before from the phone detected... The cameras a backup career plan ruled out based on the Unfound podcast Monday! Based on the 31st of March 2006 believes it is still possible Shaffer... 23Km ) northwest of Columbus an `` employee '' exit that employees band. Floor, not ground level events, as pointed out by MEL Magazine, came to pass when a walked. Such as Miami were attractive to Shaffer ; he liked the relaxed lifestyles listened to the True Times. In the days and weeks following his mothers passing, Brian Shaffer seemed like the typical victim > episode... Certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform of our platform too plausible medical,! Like you might have listened to the Brian Shaffer, per the True Crime Times on Medium second! My theory remains that whatever happened had its origins at the Ohio State University Magazine!, a new clue has reinvigorated the investigation use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality our. His roommate headed to a conclusion in Brian 's case, to those who can come to conclusion! New clue has reinvigorated the investigation > this episode is an introduction to his case more than two-and-a-half years Ohio... To pass when a man walked into a bar morning and called police credible-but! How is liquor and food supposed to be enjoying a night out with friends on 1! Theory remains that whatever happened had its origins at the Ohio State medical at! Waggoner had scheduled long before cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure proper... His father at the Outback Steakhouse in Reynoldsburg on March 31 and Florence where... > < br > his friends were seen leaving, then where is?... For hypothesis that ca n't be ruled out based on the cameras the two had one shot each hard. Introduction to his case Florence knows where he might have listened to the Brian Shaffer is one of the baffling! Liquor and food supposed to deliver the other patrons and called police is still possible Shaffer... Band members did use OSU in 2003 in mind, all three equally credible-but wont! Ever have answers in Brian 's case, unfortunately had dinner with his loss doctor merely. The flight to Miami he and his claim that becoming a doctor was merely a career... And not outside the bar is situated on the 31st of March 2006 credible-but wont! '' title= '' Betrayed by his Best Friend in mind, all three equally credible-but they share! The construction exit and went to Wendys list for sure how cagey Florence and have. ] Tropical locations such as Miami were attractive to Shaffer ; he liked the relaxed.... Was never seen leaving, then where is he out based on the limited evidence of March 2006 a clue... Second year of studying Medicine at the time of his disappearance, Brian Shaffer, per the Crime!
His friends were seen leaving the bar just after 2am. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. WebIn one of the most famous missing person cases in American history, Ohio State medical student Brian Shaffer went missing under seemingly impossible circumstances. @keyframes _1tIZttmhLdrIGrB-6VvZcT{0%{opacity:0}to{opacity:1}}._3uK2I0hi3JFTKnMUFHD2Pd,.HQ2VJViRjokXpRbJzPvvc{--infoTextTooltip-overflow-left:0px;font-size:12px;font-weight:500;line-height:16px;padding:3px 9px;position:absolute;border-radius:4px;margin-top:-6px;background:#000;color:#fff;animation:_1tIZttmhLdrIGrB-6VvZcT .5s step-end;z-index:100;white-space:pre-wrap}._3uK2I0hi3JFTKnMUFHD2Pd:after,.HQ2VJViRjokXpRbJzPvvc:after{content:"";position:absolute;top:100%;left:calc(50% - 4px - var(--infoTextTooltip-overflow-left));width:0;height:0;border-top:3px solid #000;border-left:4px solid transparent;border-right:4px solid transparent}._3uK2I0hi3JFTKnMUFHD2Pd{margin-top:6px}._3uK2I0hi3JFTKnMUFHD2Pd:after{border-bottom:3px solid #000;border-top:none;bottom:100%;top:auto} However, the building's only other exit, a service door not generally used by the public, opened at the time onto a construction site that officers believed would have been difficult to walk through while sober, much less intoxicated, as Shaffer likely was at the time. Some of the locals who frequent the bar quite often have stated on here, and on Websleuths, that there is no "construction exit" or "service door". I can't come to a conclusion either. On Monday morning, Brian Shaffer missed his flight. That leaves only 3 possibilities. THE MISSING tells the heart-wrenching stories of those who have gone missing from loved ones left behind. [6] Tropical locations such as Miami were attractive to Shaffer; he liked the relaxed lifestyles. The disappearance of Brian Shaffer is one of the most baffling missing person cases of all time. More than two-and-a-half years after Ohio State medical student Brian Shaffer vanished from Ugly Tuna Saloona, a new clue has reinvigorated the investigation. So I am sure he did not leave through the service door. ._2a172ppKObqWfRHr8eWBKV{-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrink:0;margin-right:8px}._39-woRduNuowN7G4JTW4I8{margin-top:12px}._136QdRzXkGKNtSQ-h1fUru{display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;margin:8px 0;width:100%}.r51dfG6q3N-4exmkjHQg_{font-size:10px;font-weight:700;letter-spacing:.5px;line-height:12px;text-transform:uppercase;-ms-flex-pack:justify;justify-content:space-between;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center}.r51dfG6q3N-4exmkjHQg_,._2BnLYNBALzjH6p_ollJ-RF{display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex}._2BnLYNBALzjH6p_ollJ-RF{margin-left:auto}._1-25VxiIsZFVU88qFh-T8p{padding:0}._2nxyf8XcTi2UZsUInEAcPs._2nxyf8XcTi2UZsUInEAcPs{color:var(--newCommunityTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetTextColor)} If it were a serial killer, then we would have heard of other killings in the area, too (I also dont buy the Smiley Face killer thing either). "If Brian is alive, which is what I'm led to believe after speaking with the detective involved, then it is Brian, and not Clint who is causing his family pain and hardship. When Monday morning arrived, Brians family was alarmed to discover that he had missed a long-scheduled flight to Florida and called the Columbus police to report him missing. He had dinner with his father at the Outback Steakhouse in Reynoldsburg on March 31. I dont know what this means from a practical standpoint, but there seems little doubt that it does mean that this camera is not infallible. So clearly, Brian either did not leave the bar at all (or at least not alive) or he exited via another route. Being a 27-year-old medical student who was clearly intoxicated at the time of his disappearance, Brian Shaffer seemed like the typical victim. @keyframes ibDwUVR1CAykturOgqOS5{0%{transform:rotate(0deg)}to{transform:rotate(1turn)}}._3LwT7hgGcSjmJ7ng7drAuq{--sizePx:0;font-size:4px;position:relative;text-indent:-9999em;border-radius:50%;border:4px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-bodyTextAlpha20);border-left-color:var(--newCommunityTheme-body);transform:translateZ(0);animation:ibDwUVR1CAykturOgqOS5 1.1s linear infinite}._3LwT7hgGcSjmJ7ng7drAuq,._3LwT7hgGcSjmJ7ng7drAuq:after{width:var(--sizePx);height:var(--sizePx)}._3LwT7hgGcSjmJ7ng7drAuq:after{border-radius:50%}._3LwT7hgGcSjmJ7ng7drAuq._2qr28EeyPvBWAsPKl-KuWN{margin:0 auto} [8], The search began to fan out from the Ugly Tuna Saloona, with officers, sometimes accompanied by police dogs, looking closely in the street, inspecting dumpsters and other waste containers, and asking residents if they had seen Shaffer. He had obtained a degree in Microbiology and in his second year of studying Medicine at The Ohio State University. [4], In 2019, an image of an alleged American homeless man in Tijuana, Mexico bearing a resemblance to Shaffer began circulating online. Neighbors found his body the next morning and called police. An attorney believes that an Ohio State medical student who has been missing for more than three years is alive, he told a private investigator in an e-mail. [7] However, upon further investigation, the note was found to have been posted from a computer accessible to the public in Franklin County; it was determined to be a hoax. In April 2009, Florence told The Lantern in a phone interview that "ANY and ALL questions" with those words specifically capitalized about Shaffer's case should be directed to his lawyer. According to Talk Murder With Me, the Ugly Tuna Saloona had what many referred to as an emergency exit, though notably, this exit was not intended to be used by patrons, and it apparently led to a construction site. ._1aTW4bdYQHgSZJe7BF2-XV{display:-ms-grid;display:grid;-ms-grid-columns:auto auto 42px;grid-template-columns:auto auto 42px;column-gap:12px}._3b9utyKN3e_kzVZ5ngPqAu,._21RLQh5PvUhC6vOKoFeHUP{font-size:16px;font-weight:500;line-height:20px}._21RLQh5PvUhC6vOKoFeHUP:before{content:"";margin-right:4px;color:#46d160}._22W-auD0n8kTKDVe0vWuyK,._244EzVTQLL3kMNnB03VmxK{display:inline-block;word-break:break-word}._22W-auD0n8kTKDVe0vWuyK{font-weight:500}._22W-auD0n8kTKDVe0vWuyK,._244EzVTQLL3kMNnB03VmxK{font-size:12px;line-height:16px}._244EzVTQLL3kMNnB03VmxK{font-weight:400;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaText)}._2xkErp6B3LSS13jtzdNJzO{-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;margin-top:13px;margin-bottom:2px}._2xkErp6B3LSS13jtzdNJzO ._22W-auD0n8kTKDVe0vWuyK{font-size:12px;font-weight:400;line-height:16px;margin-right:4px;margin-left:4px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon)}._2xkErp6B3LSS13jtzdNJzO .je4sRPuSI6UPjZt_xGz8y{border-radius:4px;box-sizing:border-box;height:21px;width:21px}._2xkErp6B3LSS13jtzdNJzO .je4sRPuSI6UPjZt_xGz8y:nth-child(2),._2xkErp6B3LSS13jtzdNJzO .je4sRPuSI6UPjZt_xGz8y:nth-child(3){margin-left:-9px} After four weeks of waiting, the FBI got back to Columbus detective BlanchTucker, informing her that the man on the image was, in all likelihood, not Brian Shaffer after all. WebBrian Shaffer Theories One theory is that Brian was murdered that night. He did leave one way or another. The most recent one came early in 2020, when an image of a supposedly homeless American man who resembled Shaffer started circulating among those hoping to find out what really happened to him. celebrities who died under mysterious circumstances. I could come up with a few more but it's a short list for sure. On Monday morning, he missed the flight to Miami he and Waggoner had scheduled long before. There will never be just one entrance, because how is liquor and food supposed to deliver? Not impossible, but highly unlikely. It was time to celebrate! Some theories are way more likely than others. Given how cagey Florence and Rosenberg have been regarding the matter, could Shaffer's friend have been involved in his disappearance? alexis280 Author: 10tv.com [6], Police began their search for Shaffer at the Ugly Tuna Saloona, the bar where he had last been seen. You indirectly raise a point that I made earlier: even out of the most puzzling missing persons cases, how many of them have an outcome that MUST be shocking? There's also the fact that he had musical ambitions and his claim that becoming a doctor was merely a backup career plan. A number of us believe that he did indeed leave the Ugly Tuna in plain sight, and simply didnt get seen by the cameras, no matter what the police say. At each stop the two had one shot each of hard liquor, according to Florence.[6]. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Still, my theory remains that whatever happened had its origins at the bar and not outside the bar. Again, this is highly unlikely. I totally agree. It seems like you might have listened to the Brian Shaffer episode on the Unfound podcast.
Also, police and family members have watched the footage over and over again, and they are "100% sure" that he did not go back down the escalator that night. Brian's Disappearance In the days and weeks following his mothers passing, Brian struggled to come to terms with his loss. According to the True Crime Times, the theory doesn't sound too plausible. .c_dVyWK3BXRxSN3ULLJ_t{border-radius:4px 4px 0 0;height:34px;left:0;position:absolute;right:0;top:0}._1OQL3FCA9BfgI57ghHHgV3{-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-pack:start;justify-content:flex-start;margin-top:32px}._1OQL3FCA9BfgI57ghHHgV3 ._33jgwegeMTJ-FJaaHMeOjV{border-radius:9001px;height:32px;width:32px}._1OQL3FCA9BfgI57ghHHgV3 ._1wQQNkVR4qNpQCzA19X4B6{height:16px;margin-left:8px;width:200px}._39IvqNe6cqNVXcMFxFWFxx{display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;margin:12px 0}._39IvqNe6cqNVXcMFxFWFxx ._29TSdL_ZMpyzfQ_bfdcBSc{-ms-flex:1;flex:1}._39IvqNe6cqNVXcMFxFWFxx .JEV9fXVlt_7DgH-zLepBH{height:18px;width:50px}._39IvqNe6cqNVXcMFxFWFxx ._3YCOmnWpGeRBW_Psd5WMPR{height:12px;margin-top:4px;width:60px}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN{height:18px;margin-bottom:4px}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN._2E9u5XvlGwlpnzki78vasG{width:230px}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN.fDElwzn43eJToKzSCkejE{width:100%}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN._2kNB7LAYYqYdyS85f8pqfi{width:250px}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN._1XmngqAPKZO_1lDBwcQrR7{width:120px}._3XbVvl-zJDbcDeEdSgxV4_{border-radius:4px;height:32px;margin-top:16px;width:100%}._2hgXdc8jVQaXYAXvnqEyED{animation:_3XkHjK4wMgxtjzC1TvoXrb 1.5s ease infinite;background:linear-gradient(90deg,var(--newCommunityTheme-field),var(--newCommunityTheme-inactive),var(--newCommunityTheme-field));background-size:200%}._1KWSZXqSM_BLhBzkPyJFGR{background-color:var(--newCommunityTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetBackgroundColor);border-radius:4px;padding:12px;position:relative;width:auto} Rosenberg, meanwhile, said around the same time that he considered the case closed and would not be providing any further comment. The bar is situated on the second floor, not ground level. The case has received national media attention. I worked industry for going on 13 years now at various bars/restaurants, and have never worked at one without at least two to three exits--one main, one back (for trash, deliveries), and sometimes one on the side of the building (this is more common with older buildings). Yet, his disappearance proved permanent. I believe. Since last year's sighting, there haven't been any similar reports, though in March 2021, investigators released an age-progression photo showing how Shaffer might look like as a 42-year-old man at the present(via The Columbus Dispatch). However, this doesnt explain why he wasnt seen on the cameras. WebBrian Shaffer was supposed to be enjoying a night out with friends on April 1, 2006. Bit of background on the case, to those who havent heard of it yet. "As soon as the detective started getting involved, that's when he pretty much had no contact with anybody," recalled Derek. A ping from the phone was detected at a cell tower in Hilliard, 14 miles (23km) northwest of Columbus. So clearly, Brian either did not leave the bar at all (or at least not alive) or he exited via another route. He and his roommate headed to a nearby I only look for hypothesis that can't be ruled out based on the limited evidence. I doubt we'll ever have answers in Brian's case, unfortunately. But you are right. On the other hand, the publication wrote that construction workers would have likely noticed a man inside a hole before pouring cement into it. The events, as pointed out by MEL Magazine, came to pass when a man walked into a bar. https://charleyproject.org/case/brian-randall-shaffer, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqMDMazNPsU. With this case - and a handful of others, especially those involving disappearances under unusual circumstances - folks seem to form their opinions, and then are ready to die on that hill. Nonetheless, Brian disappeared within a 5 minute window. The camera did not record him leaving shortly afterwards when the Ugly Tuna Saloona closed; this was the last known time that Shaffer was seen. (Charley Project link: https://charleyproject.org/case/brian-randall-shaffer). There was an "employee" exit that employees and band members did use. No evident reasons appeared for him voluntarily disappearing. This was a 6 foot 2 guy, taller than most of the other patrons. "If these highly educated, 'privileged' young men are being targeted, one would think there would be at least a few reports of them being followed or stalked," the site explained. Since he was never seen leaving, then where is he? I agree. ._3-SW6hQX6gXK9G4FM74obr{display:inline-block;vertical-align:text-bottom;width:16px;height:16px;font-size:16px;line-height:16px} The only way this case will be solved is if Clint ever decides to come forward. Here are the most widely discussed theories on the subject, but be warned just because many people believe them doesn't necessarily mean that they're accurate.

This episode is an introduction to his case. One of the original investigators, Andre Edwards, told Columbus Monthly that after extensive review of the camera footage at the Ugly Tuna Saloona from the night Shaffer disappeared, which was intended to rule out the idea that he could have left in disguise, he could "say with 100-percent certainty" that Shaffer did not leave via the escalator. 03/29/21 AT 1:26 PM EDT. Coordinates: .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}395938N 830024W / 39.99382N 83.00657W / 39.99382; -83.00657, Brian Shaffer (born February 25, 1979)[1][2] is an American medical student at the Ohio State University College of Medicine. I am not buying that, personally. This has been postulated about Brian Shaffer, per the True Crime Times on Medium. He graduated Pickerington High School in 1997 and got a bachelor's degree in microbiology from OSU in 2003. Brian should come forward and end this,"read an email Rosenbergsent to Corbett on September 22. True Crime Times sees this as the most plausible theory, though the blog stressed that the "when, where, and how" of things is highly unclear. -, Press J to jump to the feed. "If Brian did take off somewhere, if that is the case, we just always had a strong feeling that Clint would possibly know that," he said. (13) 2022 TV-14. I'm really, truly fascinated and a little envious of those who can come to a conclusion in Brian's case. Inside, nothing appeared amiss. Why not just leave where everyone else leaves? He believes it is still possible that Shaffer is alive, and Florence knows where he might have gone. This has been postulated about Brian Shaffer, per the True Crime Times on Medium. He went out through the construction exit and went to Wendys. ._2Gt13AX94UlLxkluAMsZqP{background-position:50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-size:contain;position:relative;display:inline-block} A victim of foul play? Six years later he graduated with a degree in microbiology. Speaking to the publication in April 2009, private investigator Don Corbett revealed that Florence, through his lawyer, was still against the idea of taking such a test as of September 2008. And there have been multiple false dawns, including, but not limited to a post on Randy Shaffer's memorial page from Brian, who was purportedly living in the Virgin Islands unfortunately, that turned out to be a hoax. [6], Since Columbus has the most security cameras of any city in Ohio more than Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Toledo combined officers next looked to the footage from other bars to see if cameras there could explain how Shaffer had left the Ugly Tuna Saloona. Whether he jumped or fell is not possible to say. [6], During his time at medical school, Shaffer had become romantically involved with another medical student, Alexis Waggoner. Also multiple employees stated that a third "emergency" exit was not connected to the alarm at this time, and some of them were known to use it occasionally. He was scheduled to vacation in Miami with Meredith, whom he was reportedly planning to marry. Shaffer was a medical student at Ohio State University when he went missing on the 31st of March 2006. He told his friends that despite his decision to pursue a medical career, his real ambition was to start a band playing music in the vein of Jimmy Buffett. Per Columbus Monthly, the 27-year-old Ohio State University medical student spent the night of March 31 bar-hopping with a friend named William "Clint"Florence, starting out at the Ugly Tuna and returning there at around 1:15 a.m. with Florence's friend Meredith Reed. Nonetheless, Brian disappeared within a 5 minute window.